I know no one on Lemmy likes Jubilee and I don’t either, but I still watch it every now and again.
Last month there was a Gen Z politician vs Boomers and one of the old guys was talking about how student loan forgiveness shouldn’t be done. The politician says you won’t feel it. The Boomer said, they would because of the numbers of the ledger, politician says you’ll feel it due to the all the people being able to contribute to the economy properly and giving it a huge boost. Boomer says him or his wife had their loans forgiven and it was a huge help, but that not everyone should get it.
Jubilee is a conservative channel, that pretends to be on “both sides” they showed thier true colors when they host conservatives, magats , and even charlie kirk, to debate “woke” people, usually its 20 people vs the left all the time.
The entire health insurance industry is built around taking a cut. Literally every single person who works for United Healthcare, BCBS, Aetna, and Humana is being paid by money the health insurance company took from you and is not using to provide healthcare. Not only that, but hospitals dedicate entire departments to battling health insurance companies for authorization for treatment. All that money could be redirected toward actually providing healthcare.
Healthcare should NEVER be private, it should always be public, with a progressive price (people below a given income and/or heritage threshold should not pay, people above that threshold should pay but in a percentage equivalent to their income and heritage, so the richest pay, proportionally, more than the poorest, instead of it being regressive and the poorest paying proportionally less than the richest), universal, democratic and decentralized.
And I mean, that goes for any socialized benefit, and it should be like that with taxes too, and even with individual goods and services. It simply doesn’t make sense that the ones that have the less, have to pay the more.
Hell, we all pay for other people’s healthcare now! When people go to the emergency room and can’t afford to pay, the hospitals crank up the cost of everyone else’s healthcare to make up for it. We have literally the least cost effective system possible.
Common misconception. You’re paying for other people’s healthcare, yes; plus the salaries of insurance agents, plus the commissions for insurance brokers, plus the bonuses for healthcare execs, plus the yacht money for healthcare investors, plus the bribe funds used by lobbyists, plus the apocalypse island money for the handful of people who own it all.
I’m probably forgetting a few. Like probably more being spend on private security now too for some reason.
I have a friend whom I have this argument with frequently, not about health care specifically but other socialized benefits (e.g. SNAP). He’s even a leftist, but still thinks he shouldn’t have to pay for people who “take advantage of the system” (e.g. spend their SNAP benefits on things he doesn’t believe should qualify, or receive SNAP benefits while spending their ‘real’ money on things he considers non-essential).
The fact that there are corporations getting orders of magnitude more in handouts, or that we’re spending an unreal amount of money on the military, or that there’s unfathomable amounts of corruption in the government, and that those benefits are in actuality a tiny fraction of what his taxes go to, makes no difference. He doesn’t want people at the bottom to get an ounce more than he believes they strictly need or deserve, and I cannot for the life of me understand that line of thought.
A while back, I was listening to a podcast that apparently had a fairly sizable conservative Christian audience, because there were a good number of ads for Christian “Health Care Sharing Ministries,” into which subscribers pay a voluntary “share,” and from which they draw when they need it.
I don’t remember the specific language the ad used, but I do remember it saying something that sounded almost dangerously close to “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need.” I started laughing at that one.
There’s a Fundamental Christian influencer named Aria Lewis who has that “insurance”. She’s been dealing with dental problems and basically made a post one day asking her followers if that insurance was a scam because she wasn’t able to get the care she really needed
It’s crazy what problems people fall into when they choose something has “Christian” in the name over what everyone else is using
Agreed 100%. Even as a Christian myself, I avoid businesses with “Christian” in the name. At best it feels like they’re trying to say that they’re the “Jesus-y” choice. At worst it means they’re crooks trying to look legitimate. In either case they’re probably maga.
The one that breaks my heart is the Christian counseling services, which are so often not true therapy. There are absolutely licensed therapists out there who are Christian and can advertise that. Just hate watching people who have serious mental health problems go to counseling and hating themselves because prayer isn’t usually enough to help.
I’m a firm believer that if there is a God, he provided the tools and people to help his flock deal with modern problems. But people often turn away from using these tools or services :(
I’m a firm believer that if there is a God, he provided the tools and people to help his flock deal with modern problems. But people often turn away from using these tools or services :(
One of the most clear expressions of how I feel about such things is 411 years old:
“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.”
It was originally written by Galileo Galilei, and it’s still as relevant now as it was then. This was made into a satire with the joke about the man on a rooftop during a flood who rejects a helicopter, a boat, and a raft, saying that “God will save me;” and who, after drowning, confronts God at the gates of Heaven, who answers his complaints, “I sent you a helicopter, a boat, and a raft, what more did you want?” The fact that something is available to believer and nonbeliever alike should be a cause for rejoicing, not for distrust.
Theologically speaking, God gave us sense, reason, and intellect; not the devil. Trained therapists and mental health professionals are gifts of God, whether they’re Christians or not. And, going back to healthcare for all, another gift of God is community; and being able to help one another as a group. But the conservative Christians have been hoodwinked by rich con men into believing that that’s socialism, and that mental health is wokeness.
dental insurance is kinda of a scam, if you are not using an employer-sponsered one, they dont cover most things outside of cleanings. the ones i looked from the 3 well known dental insurance, have approximately the same kind of coverage for all 3 plans, the only difference some of them are more expensive. Employer- sponsored plans have very different coverage from the individual plans.
i like how they rail about dental/health insurance as a scam, while they use a more expensive version which is likely paying the full cost of dental care. i would imagine the fund would drain pretty fast if people are getting multiple cavities filled, and not even for other things like extractions, root canal and crowns, or periodontal care, or implants.
I ALSO notice some dental offices, offer thier own “insurance” in house, may or may not be expensive but that could be another avenue if people dont want to pay for better insurance.
My parents are the most MAGA-pilled, Evangelical, racist, sexist, etc., folks you’ll find. Fully on board with all of the ‘conservative’ messaging, and have been their entire lives. They fully think that Communism is some existential threat…
They’re also poor. My mom never held down a full time job in her life. Her husband was a Janitor. They live in a community of other like-minded poor people that are close-knit and trade goods, labor, and services to help each other out. Its a while network where people come together to met each other’s needs. My mom grows food in her garden and will trade it for chicken eggs. Her husband will use his tractor to help someone grade a road, and get ‘paid’ in meat by someone who raises cattle, etc. Its a wonderful system and they and their network of friends working within this system are literally communists.
No matter how I’ve tried to point that out, there is NO getting through the propaganda they’ve spent their lives bathing in. Its baffling.
Oh, absolutely. People from the church I grew up in sometimes say such baffling things about socialism and communism. I want to tell them, “know how I learned about social economies? From Sunday afternoon pitch-in dinners. Even though there was going to be food there, people who could bring food still brought it! We all ate until we were sick, there was food left over, and it all tasted fantastic. Sure, we had to cut Elaine’s chess pie extra thin so that everyone could get a slice, but there was literally a vat of mashed potatoes and two whole turkeys.”
so every time he says he doesn’t want to pay for people taking advantage of the system, ask if he means the wealthy people denying healthcare to people so they can afford more yachts, their 8th mansion, their 30th sport car, their second helicopter. Because he’s overpaying for his private healthcare so they can take advantage of him.
are you sure hes a leftist, or one in NAME only. almost everyone that believes welfare should not be for POORs/POC is almost always a conservative. i know a couple people that are ON THE left in name only, but says alot of talking points of a republican and would rather vote R, if not for the pontential ostracization from thier immediately circles.
I mean, I only know what I’ve gathered from our conversations, but his views align with mine on almost every other topic. That’s why it baffles me so much that we don’t agree on this one.
Biden/Harris had the entire Epstein file suite and did absolutely nothing with it
Obama/Biden built the policy power to do the mass deportations and city-deployments of ICE that Trump is now using
Biden knew this and changed literally nothing about it when he was president
Obama/Biden deported more people than Trump has
Obama/Biden appointed Tom Homan as deportation czar - same guy Trump appointed in both terms
Biden/Harris deported/repatriated over 4M in only 4 years
Biden/Harris participated in the Israeli-led genocide of Gaza
Obama refused to provide arms to Ukraine. Trump was the first president ever to approve arms transfers to Ukraine.
Obama/Biden + HRClinton continued the Bush2 strategic plan for destroying 7 countries by completely destroying Libya, laughing at the public torture and execution of a 70-year-old man sodomized with a blade by people the HRC State Dept coordinated
800k people, on average, have died every year for the last 50 years due to US sanctions, and both parties are totally OK with it.
We could keep going, back to Clinton and the Biden-authored Crime Bill, back to every war and military action, to the School of the Americas and the training of death squads and terrorists. We can go through and show how these programs were continuous across party switches in every part of the government. We can show how every mass movement of people for self-liberation and self-governance was met with mass murder at the hands of the USA regardless of which party was in charge. We can show how the USA was the model used for EuroFascism and how the USA absorbed and protected the failed EuroFascists and then spread them around the world for decades with their protection, bi-partisanly.
The USA is the global reservoir of fascism, which, of course it is, because the USA is the torchbearer, inheritor, executor, and protector of EuroImperialism, which is what EuroFascism fundamentally is.
No, we don’t. We are always here. But you fucking dilletantes show up a few months before every election thinking that you can both rustle up some blue no matter who votes while spreading your blue MAGA bullshit and then accuse everyone else of being Russian bots and Republican trolls and you smug schmucks think it’s working without any sense of how propaganda actually works and how you are creating every opportunity for people to see how completely bankrupt you all are.
The crazy thing is, I actually agree with you about your list, and that the US has told a fairy tale for the past two and a half centuries about how we’re the good guys and they’re the bad guys, and so forth. But then
The Democrats are just as fascist
is just laughable in pretty much every conceivable way. Are they still bad? Yes! But have they sent a secret police around the country to tear “undesirables” out of their homes and send them to countries they’ve never been without due process? Are they currently plotting to overthrow the election or stay in power despite losing that election? Did they, in the past two years, allow an unelected billionaire to destroy entire government agencies by fiat?
Ah-ah-ah! I hear you saying “but they voted to approve ICE funding” or “but they didn’t do anything to stop any of it” or “but Obama deported a bunch of people too” or “Democratic gerrymandering”—no. I didn’t ask if they allowed it to happen. I didn’t ask for whatabouts. I asked if they were behind the worst, most criminal activities being perpetrated by the US government at this very moment. I asked if they are doing it now. Are they the prime movers?
No? Then you can’t say “just as fascist.” That might’ve been true ten years ago—actually, aside from the election fraud, it almost definitely was—and I could maybe even see an argument that their evil was in the same order of magnitude as recently as two years ago, but equating the two since Trump 2 is like comparing a viper bite to a meteor entering the atmosphere. They’re both imminently dangerous, sure, but the difference in the scale of damage would be almost laughable if the harm wasn’t currently in progress.
The country needs to be fixed. I don’t think the Democrats are going to do it. But I’m not going to do anything to aid the people who are going to make it more broken, so I’m going to leave off turning on people who will be on our team until after the existential threat to our loved ones and ourselves is past.
You’re making an attribution mistake. The DNC and RNC are PR firms that get people elected and manipulate the population through storytelling. Elected from both parties collaborate together to run the government of the USA.
Yes, Obama/Biden actually did create the policies necessary to deploy ICE inside US cities that Trump is using. But why didn’t Obama/Biden deploy them in that way? Because it’s off-brand. They created the conditions collaboratively with the Republicans, but they stayed within their narrative roles. They were no less fascist, you’re just choosing to draw an arbitrary line around what fascism is, and you happen to be choosing it around what makes white middle class people uncomfortable. Obama’s drone strike expansion was insanely fascist, but you didn’t have to experience fear because of it. Biden’s management of the border was no less fascist, but you didn’t have to see it. Trump’s use of Obama’s ICE is a narrative shock, but by the raw numbers it is less effective. Why? If Trump was such an evil fascist, why wouldn’t he absolutely dwarf Obama’s numbers and Biden’s numbers? Because Trump is playing a narrative role when he uses shock and awe.
And let me tell you, shock and awe is not what makes something fascist. Deliberately targeting weddings, funerals, and double tapping them with unmanned bomber jets is just as fascist, or more so, then deporting people loudly.
Did the Democrats plot to overthrow the elections? Narratively, no. Functionally, yes. If the Republicas so obviously did so, then what else can you possibly call Biden’s total inaction except tacit approval? He had the Epstein files in hand, he had a whole dog and pony show of an investigation, the SCOTUS said that the sitting president was immune from prosecution in carrying out the duties of the office even if that meant doing something totally illegal and Biden said “you know what, the voters will save us”? No. That’s not credible. The Democrats spent a massive amount of time and effort to make us feel a certain way and absolutely zero effort in stopping what they claimed was an existential threat that literally targeted our ability to vote. So how the fuck are the voters going to solve this? They already voted in a D administration and they did fucking nothing to stop the threat. So we’re supposed to vote them in again because this time they will stop threat? It’s so obviously bullshit.
Did they, in the past two years, allow an unelected billionaire to destroy entire government agencies by fiat?
That’s not fascism. That’s factionalism. The faction that Trump is the figurehead for did that and dismantled the operations that other factions relied on. They were all factions of fascism, but even within fascism there are factions. Musk destroying e.g. USAID was an intra-fascist conflict, which is easy to see when you understand that the good things USAID did were cover for all of the covert CIA operations they facilitated.
The Democrats are not on your team. They are not trying to fight the Republicans. They are co-managing the fascist empire and a large part of that is narrative control. The fascists aren’t stupid. They can’t win if they only act evil and overtly. They have to both ham it up for their base ® and they also need to co-opt any opposition they will face (D).
Sometimes, thought doesn’t have to be original. Sometimes, when something rings true, many people have the same thought, and can talk about it and agree with people who share the same thought and that isn’t an issue.
I sometimes wonder if my MAGA Dad has had a change of heart.
He used to be against universal healthcare because he “doesn’t want to pay for some homeless addicts healthcare”.
But now he’s been laid off and 6 months unemployed as a tech worker. I’m sure he wouldn’t appreciate it being pointed out that he’s living the stereotype he stigmatized for so many years. Or how slippery the slope is to homelessness.
You’re already paying for everyone else’s healthcare. Medicare for all would just make it cheaper and simpler.
What do you think happens when somebody walks into a hospital with no insurance? Do they just turn them away? No. Who do you think pays for that? You do. It’s paid for in the markup of your hospital bill.
there’s usually a ‘process’ and qualifications to get the bill covered by whatever ‘community care’ program the facility has.
they will absolutely produce an invoice and expect payment or ‘arrangements’ upon discharge (which could include application for community care benefit).
they will also absolutely send that billing to a collections agency as well. one of the hospitals near me sends a lot of their uninsured or underinsured billing that would never qualify for assistance to collections without making more than a token effort to get paid first… my boss even had a message on their home voice mail waiting for her when she got home from having an outpatient procedure done.
As evil as for-profit health insurance is, it’s actually heavily regulated. These Christian coop schemes are not and can absolutely scam people and not pay out at all for reasons like not having evidence of adhering to a strict moral code (skipped church too many Sundays? Yeah that’s a violation, coverage voided). And when they retroactively decide the person isn’t Christlike enough there’s little recourse for the patient.
It’s even more stupid than that. They’re not even paying for their own healthcare. If you arrive in hospital and need several million pounds worth of medical treatment, there’s no quibbling about whether or not you paid that much in they just get on with it.
The vast majority of people who suddenly require major surgery you actually pay considerably less over the course of a life paying via taxes then you ever would pay for private healthcare, also because it’s the government just funding itself they don’t make random numbers up when it comes to billing, it costs what it cost.
I don’t think it’s that. Or at least not always that. I’ve met plenty of boomers that think they worked hard and earned their healthcare and it’s unfair that others would get it for “free”. They’re so brainwashed into tying healthcare to their jobs instead of it just being a human right.
Especially because it’s the backwards hicks who tend to be the least healthy
There’s a part of me that would happily let them die as a result of their stupidity, but I believe even more strongly that universal health care should be universal
Let them opt out if they want to once it’s explained to them that it’s “socialised medicine” and is a leftist idea
It’s the old “why should I pay for someone else’s healthcare???”.
They’re too dumb to realize everyone else helps pay for their healthcare.
“Why should I pay for someone else’s healthcare?”
Because one day, someone will pay your healthcare you absolutely rotten piece of shit.
Like their children that for some reason won’t visit or call during the holidays.
My wife works in long term care and I can say this: the more “conservative” inmates get visited significantly less than your “liberal” ones…
I know no one on Lemmy likes Jubilee and I don’t either, but I still watch it every now and again.
Last month there was a Gen Z politician vs Boomers and one of the old guys was talking about how student loan forgiveness shouldn’t be done. The politician says you won’t feel it. The Boomer said, they would because of the numbers of the ledger, politician says you’ll feel it due to the all the people being able to contribute to the economy properly and giving it a huge boost. Boomer says him or his wife had their loans forgiven and it was a huge help, but that not everyone should get it.
Man, these fucking people.
Jubilee is a conservative channel, that pretends to be on “both sides” they showed thier true colors when they host conservatives, magats , and even charlie kirk, to debate “woke” people, usually its 20 people vs the left all the time.
Are there any channels you would consider non conservative that allow debates between racist talkshow hosts and non racist talkshow hosts?
Boomer are the most egoist gen. Fuck them all
One day?! The entire point of health insurance is that millions of other people are paying to help you pay for your healthcare
And then a random dude in the middle takes a cut while providing no actual service.
The entire health insurance industry is built around taking a cut. Literally every single person who works for United Healthcare, BCBS, Aetna, and Humana is being paid by money the health insurance company took from you and is not using to provide healthcare. Not only that, but hospitals dedicate entire departments to battling health insurance companies for authorization for treatment. All that money could be redirected toward actually providing healthcare.
Healthcare should NEVER be private, it should always be public, with a progressive price (people below a given income and/or heritage threshold should not pay, people above that threshold should pay but in a percentage equivalent to their income and heritage, so the richest pay, proportionally, more than the poorest, instead of it being regressive and the poorest paying proportionally less than the richest), universal, democratic and decentralized.
And I mean, that goes for any socialized benefit, and it should be like that with taxes too, and even with individual goods and services. It simply doesn’t make sense that the ones that have the less, have to pay the more.
Hell, we all pay for other people’s healthcare now! When people go to the emergency room and can’t afford to pay, the hospitals crank up the cost of everyone else’s healthcare to make up for it. We have literally the least cost effective system possible.
Common misconception. You’re paying for other people’s healthcare, yes; plus the salaries of insurance agents, plus the commissions for insurance brokers, plus the bonuses for healthcare execs, plus the yacht money for healthcare investors, plus the bribe funds used by lobbyists, plus the apocalypse island money for the handful of people who own it all.
I’m probably forgetting a few. Like probably more being spend on private security now too for some reason.
I have a friend whom I have this argument with frequently, not about health care specifically but other socialized benefits (e.g. SNAP). He’s even a leftist, but still thinks he shouldn’t have to pay for people who “take advantage of the system” (e.g. spend their SNAP benefits on things he doesn’t believe should qualify, or receive SNAP benefits while spending their ‘real’ money on things he considers non-essential).
The fact that there are corporations getting orders of magnitude more in handouts, or that we’re spending an unreal amount of money on the military, or that there’s unfathomable amounts of corruption in the government, and that those benefits are in actuality a tiny fraction of what his taxes go to, makes no difference. He doesn’t want people at the bottom to get an ounce more than he believes they strictly need or deserve, and I cannot for the life of me understand that line of thought.
“I’d rather 99 people get support they might not need if it means one person gets the support they definitely need.”
I’ve used that reasonably successfully.
A while back, I was listening to a podcast that apparently had a fairly sizable conservative Christian audience, because there were a good number of ads for Christian “Health Care Sharing Ministries,” into which subscribers pay a voluntary “share,” and from which they draw when they need it.
I don’t remember the specific language the ad used, but I do remember it saying something that sounded almost dangerously close to “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need.” I started laughing at that one.
There’s a Fundamental Christian influencer named Aria Lewis who has that “insurance”. She’s been dealing with dental problems and basically made a post one day asking her followers if that insurance was a scam because she wasn’t able to get the care she really needed
It’s crazy what problems people fall into when they choose something has “Christian” in the name over what everyone else is using
Agreed 100%. Even as a Christian myself, I avoid businesses with “Christian” in the name. At best it feels like they’re trying to say that they’re the “Jesus-y” choice. At worst it means they’re crooks trying to look legitimate. In either case they’re probably maga.
The one that breaks my heart is the Christian counseling services, which are so often not true therapy. There are absolutely licensed therapists out there who are Christian and can advertise that. Just hate watching people who have serious mental health problems go to counseling and hating themselves because prayer isn’t usually enough to help.
I’m a firm believer that if there is a God, he provided the tools and people to help his flock deal with modern problems. But people often turn away from using these tools or services :(
One of the most clear expressions of how I feel about such things is 411 years old:
“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.”
It was originally written by Galileo Galilei, and it’s still as relevant now as it was then. This was made into a satire with the joke about the man on a rooftop during a flood who rejects a helicopter, a boat, and a raft, saying that “God will save me;” and who, after drowning, confronts God at the gates of Heaven, who answers his complaints, “I sent you a helicopter, a boat, and a raft, what more did you want?” The fact that something is available to believer and nonbeliever alike should be a cause for rejoicing, not for distrust.
Theologically speaking, God gave us sense, reason, and intellect; not the devil. Trained therapists and mental health professionals are gifts of God, whether they’re Christians or not. And, going back to healthcare for all, another gift of God is community; and being able to help one another as a group. But the conservative Christians have been hoodwinked by rich con men into believing that that’s socialism, and that mental health is wokeness.
Makes my blood boil.
dental insurance is kinda of a scam, if you are not using an employer-sponsered one, they dont cover most things outside of cleanings. the ones i looked from the 3 well known dental insurance, have approximately the same kind of coverage for all 3 plans, the only difference some of them are more expensive. Employer- sponsored plans have very different coverage from the individual plans.
i like how they rail about dental/health insurance as a scam, while they use a more expensive version which is likely paying the full cost of dental care. i would imagine the fund would drain pretty fast if people are getting multiple cavities filled, and not even for other things like extractions, root canal and crowns, or periodontal care, or implants.
I ALSO notice some dental offices, offer thier own “insurance” in house, may or may not be expensive but that could be another avenue if people dont want to pay for better insurance.
My parents are the most MAGA-pilled, Evangelical, racist, sexist, etc., folks you’ll find. Fully on board with all of the ‘conservative’ messaging, and have been their entire lives. They fully think that Communism is some existential threat…
They’re also poor. My mom never held down a full time job in her life. Her husband was a Janitor. They live in a community of other like-minded poor people that are close-knit and trade goods, labor, and services to help each other out. Its a while network where people come together to met each other’s needs. My mom grows food in her garden and will trade it for chicken eggs. Her husband will use his tractor to help someone grade a road, and get ‘paid’ in meat by someone who raises cattle, etc. Its a wonderful system and they and their network of friends working within this system are literally communists.
No matter how I’ve tried to point that out, there is NO getting through the propaganda they’ve spent their lives bathing in. Its baffling.
Oh, absolutely. People from the church I grew up in sometimes say such baffling things about socialism and communism. I want to tell them, “know how I learned about social economies? From Sunday afternoon pitch-in dinners. Even though there was going to be food there, people who could bring food still brought it! We all ate until we were sick, there was food left over, and it all tasted fantastic. Sure, we had to cut Elaine’s chess pie extra thin so that everyone could get a slice, but there was literally a vat of mashed potatoes and two whole turkeys.”
so every time he says he doesn’t want to pay for people taking advantage of the system, ask if he means the wealthy people denying healthcare to people so they can afford more yachts, their 8th mansion, their 30th sport car, their second helicopter. Because he’s overpaying for his private healthcare so they can take advantage of him.
are you sure hes a leftist, or one in NAME only. almost everyone that believes welfare should not be for POORs/POC is almost always a conservative. i know a couple people that are ON THE left in name only, but says alot of talking points of a republican and would rather vote R, if not for the pontential ostracization from thier immediately circles.
I mean, I only know what I’ve gathered from our conversations, but his views align with mine on almost every other topic. That’s why it baffles me so much that we don’t agree on this one.
guess he dint fully buy into the manosphere/ right grifting circuit.
When you say “leftist” I assume you mean liberal Democrat.
Let’s maybe save the purity tests for when we’re not staring down the barrel of a fascist coup already in progress, eh?
The Democrats are just as fascist:
We could keep going, back to Clinton and the Biden-authored Crime Bill, back to every war and military action, to the School of the Americas and the training of death squads and terrorists. We can go through and show how these programs were continuous across party switches in every part of the government. We can show how every mass movement of people for self-liberation and self-governance was met with mass murder at the hands of the USA regardless of which party was in charge. We can show how the USA was the model used for EuroFascism and how the USA absorbed and protected the failed EuroFascists and then spread them around the world for decades with their protection, bi-partisanly.
The USA is the global reservoir of fascism, which, of course it is, because the USA is the torchbearer, inheritor, executor, and protector of EuroImperialism, which is what EuroFascism fundamentally is.
Geez, they really do come out of the woodwork just prior to elections.
No, we don’t. We are always here. But you fucking dilletantes show up a few months before every election thinking that you can both rustle up some blue no matter who votes while spreading your blue MAGA bullshit and then accuse everyone else of being Russian bots and Republican trolls and you smug schmucks think it’s working without any sense of how propaganda actually works and how you are creating every opportunity for people to see how completely bankrupt you all are.
The crazy thing is, I actually agree with you about your list, and that the US has told a fairy tale for the past two and a half centuries about how we’re the good guys and they’re the bad guys, and so forth. But then
is just laughable in pretty much every conceivable way. Are they still bad? Yes! But have they sent a secret police around the country to tear “undesirables” out of their homes and send them to countries they’ve never been without due process? Are they currently plotting to overthrow the election or stay in power despite losing that election? Did they, in the past two years, allow an unelected billionaire to destroy entire government agencies by fiat?
Ah-ah-ah! I hear you saying “but they voted to approve ICE funding” or “but they didn’t do anything to stop any of it” or “but Obama deported a bunch of people too” or “Democratic gerrymandering”—no. I didn’t ask if they allowed it to happen. I didn’t ask for whatabouts. I asked if they were behind the worst, most criminal activities being perpetrated by the US government at this very moment. I asked if they are doing it now. Are they the prime movers?
No? Then you can’t say “just as fascist.” That might’ve been true ten years ago—actually, aside from the election fraud, it almost definitely was—and I could maybe even see an argument that their evil was in the same order of magnitude as recently as two years ago, but equating the two since Trump 2 is like comparing a viper bite to a meteor entering the atmosphere. They’re both imminently dangerous, sure, but the difference in the scale of damage would be almost laughable if the harm wasn’t currently in progress.
The country needs to be fixed. I don’t think the Democrats are going to do it. But I’m not going to do anything to aid the people who are going to make it more broken, so I’m going to leave off turning on people who will be on our team until after the existential threat to our loved ones and ourselves is past.
You’re making an attribution mistake. The DNC and RNC are PR firms that get people elected and manipulate the population through storytelling. Elected from both parties collaborate together to run the government of the USA.
Yes, Obama/Biden actually did create the policies necessary to deploy ICE inside US cities that Trump is using. But why didn’t Obama/Biden deploy them in that way? Because it’s off-brand. They created the conditions collaboratively with the Republicans, but they stayed within their narrative roles. They were no less fascist, you’re just choosing to draw an arbitrary line around what fascism is, and you happen to be choosing it around what makes white middle class people uncomfortable. Obama’s drone strike expansion was insanely fascist, but you didn’t have to experience fear because of it. Biden’s management of the border was no less fascist, but you didn’t have to see it. Trump’s use of Obama’s ICE is a narrative shock, but by the raw numbers it is less effective. Why? If Trump was such an evil fascist, why wouldn’t he absolutely dwarf Obama’s numbers and Biden’s numbers? Because Trump is playing a narrative role when he uses shock and awe.
And let me tell you, shock and awe is not what makes something fascist. Deliberately targeting weddings, funerals, and double tapping them with unmanned bomber jets is just as fascist, or more so, then deporting people loudly.
Did the Democrats plot to overthrow the elections? Narratively, no. Functionally, yes. If the Republicas so obviously did so, then what else can you possibly call Biden’s total inaction except tacit approval? He had the Epstein files in hand, he had a whole dog and pony show of an investigation, the SCOTUS said that the sitting president was immune from prosecution in carrying out the duties of the office even if that meant doing something totally illegal and Biden said “you know what, the voters will save us”? No. That’s not credible. The Democrats spent a massive amount of time and effort to make us feel a certain way and absolutely zero effort in stopping what they claimed was an existential threat that literally targeted our ability to vote. So how the fuck are the voters going to solve this? They already voted in a D administration and they did fucking nothing to stop the threat. So we’re supposed to vote them in again because this time they will stop threat? It’s so obviously bullshit.
That’s not fascism. That’s factionalism. The faction that Trump is the figurehead for did that and dismantled the operations that other factions relied on. They were all factions of fascism, but even within fascism there are factions. Musk destroying e.g. USAID was an intra-fascist conflict, which is easy to see when you understand that the good things USAID did were cover for all of the covert CIA operations they facilitated.
The Democrats are not on your team. They are not trying to fight the Republicans. They are co-managing the fascist empire and a large part of that is narrative control. The fascists aren’t stupid. They can’t win if they only act evil and overtly. They have to both ham it up for their base ® and they also need to co-opt any opposition they will face (D).
Well, you know what they say about assumptions. Of course, when I see a post from .ml, I assume the poster is a tankie, so I guess we’re both guilty.
Ah, I’ve engaged a person without an original thought. My mistake.
Sometimes, thought doesn’t have to be original. Sometimes, when something rings true, many people have the same thought, and can talk about it and agree with people who share the same thought and that isn’t an issue.
I sometimes wonder if my MAGA Dad has had a change of heart. He used to be against universal healthcare because he “doesn’t want to pay for some homeless addicts healthcare”.
But now he’s been laid off and 6 months unemployed as a tech worker. I’m sure he wouldn’t appreciate it being pointed out that he’s living the stereotype he stigmatized for so many years. Or how slippery the slope is to homelessness.
These people NEED this pointed out to them. It’s the only way they ever change their perspectives. It must affect them, otherwise they never change.
hes going to do mental gymnasitcs,“im not one of those people, i worked 100k+/year job for decades, and i deserved it”. if he was a diehard magat.
You’re already paying for everyone else’s healthcare. Medicare for all would just make it cheaper and simpler.
What do you think happens when somebody walks into a hospital with no insurance? Do they just turn them away? No. Who do you think pays for that? You do. It’s paid for in the markup of your hospital bill.
Also, private insurance is still ‘paying for other people’s healthcare’.
there’s usually a ‘process’ and qualifications to get the bill covered by whatever ‘community care’ program the facility has.
they will absolutely produce an invoice and expect payment or ‘arrangements’ upon discharge (which could include application for community care benefit).
they will also absolutely send that billing to a collections agency as well. one of the hospitals near me sends a lot of their uninsured or underinsured billing that would never qualify for assistance to collections without making more than a token effort to get paid first… my boss even had a message on their home voice mail waiting for her when she got home from having an outpatient procedure done.
i like how the christian “health/dental” plans are exactly like actual insurance from like companies like cigna,aetna,delta-care,etc.
As evil as for-profit health insurance is, it’s actually heavily regulated. These Christian coop schemes are not and can absolutely scam people and not pay out at all for reasons like not having evidence of adhering to a strict moral code (skipped church too many Sundays? Yeah that’s a violation, coverage voided). And when they retroactively decide the person isn’t Christlike enough there’s little recourse for the patient.
i was about to add, that they can choose not to cover anything.
It’s even more stupid than that. They’re not even paying for their own healthcare. If you arrive in hospital and need several million pounds worth of medical treatment, there’s no quibbling about whether or not you paid that much in they just get on with it.
The vast majority of people who suddenly require major surgery you actually pay considerably less over the course of a life paying via taxes then you ever would pay for private healthcare, also because it’s the government just funding itself they don’t make random numbers up when it comes to billing, it costs what it cost.
Pound like a pound of fat, if so can it come from the belly area, they have tons over there. /S
Everyone else minus a select few parasites who instead make their healthcare vastly more expensive to balance it out – the American way. 🇵🇷🦅⛪🗽🔫🎆
I don’t think it’s that. Or at least not always that. I’ve met plenty of boomers that think they worked hard and earned their healthcare and it’s unfair that others would get it for “free”. They’re so brainwashed into tying healthcare to their jobs instead of it just being a human right.
They’ve never heard of communicable diseases either.
Even if it works out cheaper, they believe certain people don’t deserve healthcare, or anything in their eyes.
Especially because it’s the backwards hicks who tend to be the least healthy
There’s a part of me that would happily let them die as a result of their stupidity, but I believe even more strongly that universal health care should be universal
Let them opt out if they want to once it’s explained to them that it’s “socialised medicine” and is a leftist idea
They won’t, because they’re filthy hypocrites