He said AI is helping workers produce more output, but the quality of it is so bad that their colleagues have to spend more time fixing it
Everyone predicted this. Why the fuck didn’t the billionaires? What is their major malfunction?
Billionaires, that’s the malfunction, time to dine yet?
maybe when red state gasoline hits 7.50
Honestly, its beyond billionaires. Even upper management and smaller business owners are slopping up the koolaid like its nobody’s business. They feel like they just got that secret weapon to lord over all their employees or fix every problem they couldn’t manage.
There’s really this maliciousness to it. The way they talk down and chew out people objecting or raising concerns. There’s this mask off righteousness and entitlement to them that I’ve rarely seen before.
Because they always think they’re the exception and everyone else is doing it wrong.
It’s not uncommon with narcissists.
Because they always think they’re the exception and everyone else is doing it wrong.
They are wrong in this belief because being idiots they don’t have the capacity to be aware that they are idiots. But generally this belief is true. It is more positively expressed in these words: “If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.” When I look at the dismal state of software, I see crap everywhere. With the rise of slop generators this is bound to become worse.
It’s about their personality disorder, not their intelligence.
They did, but they knew they could make money out of it anyway.
Oh it is simple, they are fucking dumb. Always have been. If they do have some brain cells to rub together they will get stuck on short term gains for themselves which in the long run is fucking dumb.
Either way you slice it dumb, just fucking dumb.
We don’t live in a meritocratic society, especially at the higher levels.
Right mommy, right daddy, right school, knowing the right people, right way of talking - that’s far more important to end up a CEO than competence.
They think it’s worth it to scare employees and suppress wages.
Even if it costs more to fix the mistakes it might actually be cheaper if people don’t win wage increases and layoffs continue.
I’m not saying this will work but it seems to be at least part of the logic.
No one tells them no
they are billionaires. they just want more hot air for their bubble i sure know they have lots of it in the bottom area behind them
They’re all conservatives. Conservatives are profoundly unintelligent by nature. Just the dumbest cockroaches to ever infest a planet.
deleted by creator
CEO Tobias Lütke… told employees last year that using AI is “a baseline expectation,” and they should first prove they “cannot get what they want done using AI” before asking for more resources.
Isn’t this an example of Play stupid games, win stupid prizes?
It looks like an example of Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Just playing uhm angels advocate? Not sure how to call it, the naive optimist perhaps!
Not necessarily: the statement (in isolation) is a call to learn and become capable to explain limitations. The criticized effect is basically “people not being able to explain the limits”.
I suspect that “finding limits” wasn’t incentived though (and I mean things like positive feedback, not money). And then you get shit-in-shit-out factories.
Or to rephrase your statement: If you want to play a game then stick to the rules you’ve set up - otherwise everyone’s allowed to cheat.
A hammer makes a poor substitute for a knife & fork.
With CEOs - we need to switch to REAL grenades.
Tobias Lütke’s net worth is over 12 billion, like all billionaires he won’t have an income. He’ll be buying assets at an inflated price then taking out bank loans against them - a process that inflates prices on things like realestate and land (because the more they pay the more they can borrow from the bank).
Billionaires do this to avoid income taxes. They want to be paid in stocks, assets, and live tax free off never ending bank loans. He’ll they’ll buy media companies just to borrow against them, they’ll buy lobbying companies… And they’ll use them to make society worse (on top of the inflation they create).
…and the increased roads, infrastructure, costs to the community? Who covers their tax burden? That hole in the tax system? They use tax loopholes, so YOU cover their tax burdens. YOU do.
Billionaires do this to avoid income taxes.
The most infuriating part of this? Mr. Lütke endorses the idea of granting more votes to those who pay more income tax, including stripping the right to vote from people who do not pay income tax.
He has also called pensioners ‘dependents’ who shouldn’t get to vote:
New deal: when you get your pension deal it’s locked in and guaranteed. But now you are a dependent and that means no voting, just like dependents under age. Enjoy the deal, let people with a stake in the future decide.
https://moneywise.com/news/top-stories/shopify-ceo-tobi-lutke-pensioners-voting-rights
Well, considering I paid more in income tax than Bezos did, I think that’s a pretty damn good idea
I’m finding it hard to reconcile the people who find it useless with those who find it useful. My own experience with languages is that it speeds me up for tasks I have the skills to verify, but with ones I don’t it can slow me down doing the verification and fixes.
I know software developers in a Fortune 500 company who swear that overall they are far more productive with “agents”. I don’t know if it’s a highly tailored system rather than the more all-purpose ones the general public have. So I do wonder if there are use cases for it.
It’s ruining the planet and our societies, though. And it’s distracting us from what really matters. Net negative for sure.
Edit: they’re also not very good at their most basic tasks. Researchers have found that when the major LLMs summarise articles, it misrepresents the facts 51% of the time.
Yeah strong black/white opinions on AI annoy the hell out of me. I find some AI tooling really helpful like fancy line completions and using conversationalLLMs as a last resort to solving problems, but I hate anything to do with agents or vibe coding in general if only just because I don’t want the field I enjoy so much being entirely replaced with being a project manager for a computer.
It makes me frustrated trying to talk about this stuff on Lemmy or other places though because it always ends up being two battling sides of “A SINGLE GENERATED CHARACTER MEANS THE ENTIRE PROJECT IS SLOP!!!” and “ANYONE WHO ISN’T VIBING OUT MILLIONS OF LOC WITH 100 DIFFERENT AGENTS GOING AT ONCE MAY AS WELL JUST KILL THEMSELVES!!!”
I can kinda get the sentiment behind that polarization. There’s such a strong drift towards LLM use that it takes hardline stances to try and slow it down
I find it can speed me up, but it’s very easy to become lazy and find myself asking the AI to do things I could do perfectly well myself, quickly and using far less electricity. And then before I know it I have a huge pile of slop that I don’t know my way around, and I spend the time on the other end trying to understand and check it all. It feels amazing up front, but you pay later.
For corporate software, there’s so many bugfixes and features, which require so few additions/changes that it’s faster to do it than to write the prompt.
But obviously only if you’re able to hold the entire codebase in your skull, but a proficient developer should be able to do so.
If people begin outsourcing these changes to LLMs, then they’re cooked and no longer able to verify the output.
Yeah, it seems like a new type of judgement is needed that I don’t normally encounter in a day. Like, I use a hammer to hammer nails, then I put it down. I don’t try to cook with it. This tool has a weird, abstract nature to it where you can drift between using / misusing / abusing without necessarily noticing. A strange position to be in while trying to work at the same time .
My code adjacent work is much faster, but programming itself is about the same.
So if I need to make a data visualization or UI for data input it’s way better, but if I have to do an analysis or build something it sucks all the knowledge out of the task and takes twice as long. At least. Because unless I’m forming a strong understanding of the information the task can’t progress.
I have no idea if LLMs actually make me faster in the aggregate, but I’m more interested in using them to be better. For example, having a LLM review some code, or share a plan for and have it point out all of the flaws in your reasoning or alternatives you never considered.
Lmao I am living this right now at work 🥲
Yep. We have a guy on the team who generates document after document for us to review and it’s all slop that he has no understanding of (not that anyone could understand the mostly nonsense)
Did you not get to reject all of that yet?
This is also what I don’t get. At worst people start ignoring the documents or requests for review (or code changes) because they have better things to do than review generated text.
At best you push back.
I wish. Our company is still at the “you must adopt and use AI” phase. I’m looking forward to the “Holy fuck that’s expensive! Be careful of your usage” phase
My org saw AI as a threat and immediately banned it (blocking websites and restricting features in apps) until our IT folks could evaluate it and implement safeguards. Incidentally, they missed the window when vendors were more or less offering it for free. Now any AI solution doesn’t just have to be vetted against our security and privacy needs, but most likely requires a darn good business case, RFP’s, quotes, and contracts.
It never became a part of the culture here, much to our benefit.
I spent half my day dealing with a slop grenade.
Someone came in and dropped a (bunch of) AI generated PRs. Said person knows nothing about my world, but they want cost optimization and Fable runs through logs and gives them code. Second Fable review agent tries the code, it doesn’t work. Gives suggestions to first. New commit comes in with workaround, I decline this because it’s a shit and had another unnoticed critical integration bug. This goes on a few more times.
It comes back a fifth or so time with something that is now technically correct, but fucking horrifying. Great, now I don’t know what to do, because I’m getting told it’ll fix the billing issue and this is a huge problem, but the code is insane.
This is a cost optimization PR, advertising massive savings, but the numbers seemed way off. It turns out it looked at one day with a runaway process that racked up insane billing (90% of year-to-date total project cost) and “annualized” it, and that was the savings. But further, it calculated all the costs using the wrong billing system, so all the numbers were wrong.
When I recalculated and corrected it, the whole thing saves us $6/month, because we don’t have runaway outages very often.
This is on top of every ticket I get is Claude generated, they never just state the fucking issue, and 100% of tickets in 2 weeks plus today I’ve received were inaccurate and wrong.
I hate the slop. I hate the non technical users throwing the slop on me without knowing how it works.
Take whatever prompt you put in the AI and write exactly that for the ticket content, then spend 30 seconds summarizing it into a title. I don’t care if it’s “customer wants a button that shows a cat”, just write that.
I cannot take another “client has a load bearing contract dispute with sales. Genuinely the verdict here will secure the shape of the contract. Critically in foo.py function get_foo_blorp there is no reference to felis catus to satisfy hard customer requirement. Acceptance requirement: return felis catus when module controller clicked and client is logged in and client’s birthday is in same month, otherwise return error codes 412 404 526” word salad ticket that doesn’t just state the problem.
I think a good way around this is that any project submissions using AI must include draft material to show how much data was used vs generated. We will never get away from AI at this stage but we need to get to a trust but verify stage. Even if they built the whole thing with AI they should be able to show the amount of tokens used in the entire to generate it (more generally means they have spent time refining whatever it is)
We need to get away from AI=Bad and rather use AI as tools and don’t help it replace us by showing 100% generated work as your own. Me using AI to make something is going to be much more polished and refined vs your general office worker. We need proper AI classes to help show people how to use it responsibly and collaboratively so we can cut down on the amount of duplicate work being generated as if we can cut down processing power it also cuts down the pollution generated.
The “purpose” for AI (the reason it is being FORCED on us) is that it allows “wealth” to access “skill” while at the same time keeping skilled people away from wealth.
NOW what billionaire would not want that?
What poor person would want that?
See the problem yet?
Defenestrate Mark
That doesn’t work, Mark flies.
“SHIP MORE CODE!!! NO NOT LIKE THAT!!!” - CEOs
More lines = better
max-line-width: 20
Wasn’t Shopify one of the first companies to go all in on an AI infrastructure? I seemed to recall reading that about a year or two ago.
Yep. Same guy said managers will ask why they can’t use AI for that job. It seems that he has answered that hypothetical question here.
Along similar lines, I’ve started calling it “copyslop” when someone dumps ai garbage into my comms.
Great sites and a new term I recently learned about:
They’re acting as a “meat proxy”.
how else is ai slop going to be monetized? more slop more hallucinations more bubble.
Ok then why did you give money to your friend DHH for Omarchy? it’s literally a slop vibe coded “distro”.
Because of the complete vibe coding of Omarchy it takes longer the configure it than any other distro with a WM. I mean hell the AI cut the Hyperland config up into 6 damn LUA files AND THEN you have to unbind everything and rebind it as opposed to ONE file that you can literally just swap out binds. And yet you gave the guy a couple million for it.
So I’m so sorry Tobias but you did this to yourself. you were one of the first to embrace AI completely and use it completely wrong and now you’re whining about it and you continue to fund it. you can’t have it both ways bud.
Not a fan of the guy but I’m stealing “slop grenade.”
dw he stole much more
I’m not a fan of a lot of his politics but I honestly thought that interview was worth listening to. He has some interesting nuanced takes.
Has anyone noticed that when a teammate uses AI, their teammates also have to as well? Honestly it might be because they don’t want to bother reading the machine’s code when the original author didn’t put much thought into it. Another might be the mental fatigue from reading code that grows faster than you can parse.
He raises exactly that point in the interview when talking about slop grenades.
Great, can we now abort this asinine “AI” bullshit and go back to normal GPU prices?
No, we’re going to continue on this path until we have to suck the liquids out of your body to cool the data center
