I have to rethink my priorities I guess.
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I think there should be one clock for the entire planet and fuck timezones. Most people don’t actually care about what specific number hour the sun rises. Zenith at 4? Fuckit. Communication between people is more important than the movement of celestial bodies.
In my country daylights savings makes even less sense. We are already out of sync with solar time, because of Hitler. The Netherlands should follow GMT not CET. When the Netherlands was occupied ze Germans instated CET. So setting the clock back during summer will actually make the Netherlands almost 2 hours out of sync with the sun.
Just move the damn clock 30 min, everybody looses/everybody wins.
Why do we need to change the clock twice a year when we know how many downsides there are?
- sleep disruptions, can take weeks to adjust
- 24% spike in heart attacks on the Monday after setting the clock forward
- 8% increased risk of stroke
- increased depressive episodes, worse mood, decreased cognitive performance
- 6% increase in traffic accidents
- more frequent workplace injuries
- increased pedestrian risk
- estimated between millions to billions of dollars in productivity loss annually in the US alone
- international coordination confusion
It fucking sucks
There’s been numerous referandums on the subject in which people have had the opportunity to vote on dealing with this shit.
Option A) leave it as is.
Option B) permanent DST
Option C) permanent whatever the other option is called.
Since getting rid of changing the clocks 2 times per year gets split between 2 different solutions, not fixing it wins the vote.
24% spike in heart attacks on the Monday after setting the clock forward
Is this true? If so, that’s a pretty crazy statistic.
Iirc the heart attacks even out over the span of a few weeks, so Idk about the others.
Iirc the heart attacks even out over the span of a few weeks, so Idk about the others.
Did you get it, or…
I hate daylight savings time so much.
Do other countries do this stupid shit? We can’t even do time right
As an Indian, no we don’t.
some countries do. Wikipedia link
shorter work days mean longer work days in summer. No thanks
Shorter work days? The corporate and government bastards would add a week or month to the calendar, especially in the 3rd World countries, China and USA. Those folks would embrace it with their stupid work hard beyond the point of diminishing return attitude while the civilized 1st World countries would revolt.
I mean… I have young kids with delacate sleep schedules, and I just want them to stop fucking with the clock. Please just pick a lane and stay in it.
I just strongly dislike my biorhythms being thrown out of whack for several weeks twice a year.
Yeah. It ending is a nice little treat I dont mind because Im able to sleep in and I get to be like “oh wow it feels so much later but it’s only 5 we have so much time!” for a few days until I adjust, but losing an hour in the spring can go to hell.
We dont even get anything out of it. Towards the end of daylight savings in october it’s actually darker in the mornings when you wake up which sucks cause it switches off just in time for it to also get darker earlier due to winter. Whats the pro of springing forwards? The sun fully sets at 9 instead of 8 in the summer? Admittedly I do love long summer days, but if lets be real that tradeoff is minimal(and kinda annoying if you have young kids).
Theres like a 2 week period in spring where its like “oh neat the sun is still up” in the evening. The whole thing is dumb.
Even in October when the clocks are turned back and we “get an extra hour” it still fucks with my body’s internal clock. And it takes weeks for me to adjust to the regular time.
My dog has no clue. She still wants a walk and will not be denied. Human timekeeping be damned.
Hmmm they make a strong case. We should think about trying this.
The real problem with daylight savings time is that we haven’t killed and devoured the oligarchy/hegemony/kakistocracy.
Ok but I want to work less earlier rather than later.
There is another solution: live far enough up north and the day disappears totally eventually.
I live up north and I can tell you DST makes fuck-all difference after a week here.
There are only 2 days, summer and winter. All DST do is mess with my sleep pattern twice a year.
Can we just pick one time and stick to it instead of swapping twice a year?
A lot of places are doing that, but they’re making the stupid decision to keep DST all year, which means that solar noon is at 1pm.
Just keep it the same all year. Keep solar noon at 12pm. If you think it’s dangerous for kids to be catching the bus in the dark in winter, start school 1 hour later. If that means parents might need to stay home longer to see their kids off to school, start work later.
This isn’t rocket surgery. Adjust the work and school schedule, not the clock.
For Europe we currently share a timezone across many countries (CET/CEST). That is way too convenient to ever change. Noon is probably never going to be at 12pm everywhere.
For a big geographic area like Europe, the best you can do is make it so that on average for the population solar noon is around 12pm. Some people in the east will get solar noon before their clocks say it’s 12pm, people in the west will get it after the clocks say it’s 12pm, but on average, solar noon is at noon.
China has an even stranger situation. It’s a huge country that uses one time zone. They’ve set it so that for the majority of people / most important cities, noon is at noon. But, that means that some people in the far west of China have clocks saying it’s noon long before the sun gets to its peak. But, that might be a reasonable compromise to have everybody in the country on the same clock. What would be dumb is to have everybody in the country on the same clock, then say that for the majority of people solar noon is when the clocks say 3pm.
Who cares when solar noon is? Id like to get out of work with any amount of sunlight.
This isn’t rocket surgery. Adjust the work and school schedule, not the clock.
I care when solar noon is. You should too. What does solar noon have to do with getting out of work with sunlight? If that matters to you, make it a demand when you get a job.
Western culture is so alienated from Country that it’s easier to change time itself than to change work schedules
Not sure what that has to do with Country.
The clocks should agree with the sun, and the sun is part of Country. Noon should be when the sun is up. People are alienated from the natural cycles happening on Country.
Uhhh… which country exactly is the sun part of?
It doesnt make any sense to keep DST permanent there’s no pluses.
a) It will be still dark at 7am for large chunks of the year this sucks. b)You get one final shitty spring forwards, but lose out of the pleasure of one last fall back.
a) It will be still dark at 7am for large chunks of the year this sucks.
Why? Is there something special about “7am”?
morning people be like
Sorry if i wasn’t very clear when I was kind of rapidly typing. To elaborate even by late October it’s still dark by like 7 And that’s with daylight savings time still in effect. If daylight savings time were still in effect in the winter, then by late December The sun wouldn’t be up until nine o’clock. That sucks
Seven in particular is a touchstone because that’s when a lot of people are up going to or getting ready for work and it’s when kids are often going to school and waiting for the bus.
Sure, there are places in more northern latitudes that have to deal with these compromises, but it’s a silly compromise to make when it’s artificially made.
Better to let end daylight savings one final time and leave it ended
The sun wouldn’t be up until nine o’clock. That sucks
Why? What does nine o’clock matter? Does it bother you that right now it’s 3pm in Beijing but it’s the middle of the night in North America?
The numbers on a clock are just numbers on a clock. It doesn’t suck any less if it’s dark at 4am or 7am or 10am.
Seven in particular is a touchstone because that’s when a lot of people are up going to or getting ready for work
There’s no reason that can’t change. If you don’t like being up at 7am when it’s dark, then change the time you start work.
and it’s when kids are often going to school and waiting for the bus.
There’s no reason kids have to go to school at 7am. Kids could go to school at 9am. There’s nothing sacred about the current schedule.
but it’s a silly compromise to make when it’s artificially made.
Yes, I completely agree. This arbitrary school start time of 8am or 8:30 or 9am or whatever it is where you live is artificially made, and can be changed. There’s no reason to keep that arbitrary time and instead change the clocks so that time occurs when it’s light outside.
Wow, you really like arguing, don’t you?
Only when someone is wrong.
DST sucks because you have to go to school when it’s dark and leave school when it’s dark
Yeah, that’s stupid but still a step up from swapping.
No, I mean yes, but let’s do that in the picture first!
“AI revolutionizes the way we work so that a lot of people get kicked out of their jobs.”
Hey, if we can do most of the work without the people even working, why the hell am I doing overtime here? Why is anyone? Let the machine do the hard work, I’ll enjoy life meanwhile.
AND DAYLIGHT, FFS!
Yeah, definitely that as well. Although I think “let’s not do daylight savings swaps anymore” is going to be a much easier fight since there is no powerful vested interest in keeping it…
Many places have. Just about the only thing I support my current government doing.
Yesterday I saw a video with a sleep expert.
She said that human beings have a problem getting up until it’s light and that Daylight Saving Time can mess that up.
I propose that AT THE VERY LEAST, during the winter, work days be one hour shorter, but with no decrease in pay, and that they start an hour later.
This will allow people to have a proper amount of sleep, and to see the sun in the morning, to be better rested, and to see the sun at the end of the day.
I propose that AT THE VERY LEAST, during the winter, work days be one hour shorter
This isn’t something you “propose”, this is something you demand when negotiating your job offer. If you’re not an in-demand worker and can’t do that, then join a union and have the union demand it.
Really, this whole daylight time / standard time debate is stupid. Solar noon should be at 12pm. Once you’ve fixed that, adjust other things. If in the summer people want more evening sun, then start work earlier. If in the winter they want more morning sun to make commutes safer, then start work later.
It’s absolutely ridiculous to have the freedom to change work hours and clocks, and think that the reasonable thing to do is to change the clocks so noon isn’t at noon, rather than just change work hours.
The time zone is an hour wide. Solar noon and chronological noon cannot coincide with each other throughout an entire time zone.
I would say that Solar noon should occur some time in the noon hour. Solar noon should never occur prior to chronological noon, nor after the noon hour. Solar noon should never occur at 11:00am on the clock. Solar noon should never occur at 11:30am on the clock. Solar noon should never occur at 11:59am on the clock. Nobody should experience solar noon earlier than 12:00pm. Solar noon should be experienced sometime between 12:00pm and 12:59:59pm on the clock. Solar noon should be experienced within the noon hour.
The system that more closely aligns with this is Daylight Savings Time. Standard Time pushes solar noon forward into the morning hours for most people. DST keeps noon in the noon hour for most people. If you want chronological noon to coincide with solar noon, you need to choose DST, not standard time.
Solar noon and chronological noon cannot coincide with each other throughout an entire time zone.
Sure, in a properly designed time zone, solar noon will range between a clock time of 11:30 and 12:30 at the edges. But, if you go with permanent DST it will range from 12:30 to 1:30. Nobody in the zone will have solar noon at noon.
Sure, in a properly designed time zone, solar noon will range between a clock time of 11:30 and 12:30 at the edges.
No, in a properly designed time zone, solar noon will occur between 12:00 and 12:59:59. Nobody should be experiencing solar noon before chronological noon in a properly designed time zone.
And yet, that is what we have. Boston experienced solar noon at 11:29AM today. New York at 11:40. Los Angeles, 11:37 AM.
Even if we accepted the ridiculous idea
of tolerating solar noon before noon, we would need a fifth time zone (and redrawing of the current time zones) to achieve what you’re trying to do. Maine and the rest of New England would have to be moved to Atlantic time instead of Eastern, for example.
If each of us adopted your “noon at noon” standard for ourselves, and we each independently and permanently selected Summer Time or Winter Time in our current time zone, the majority of the US population would be on Summer Time. The majority of the land would be on standard time, but the people are not evenly distributed across that land. The majority of the populace would be on DST.
We used to do that in the 19th century before standard time was a thing with railways. Though scheduling an online meeting with anyone outside your city would be hell, for example a 9:00am meeting in New York City would be 8:48am in Boston and 9:12am in DC.
You should have also have a read on Japan’s time system before 1873 in the Meiji period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_clock
It breaks the day and night in 6 parts each. These parts are longer in summer and shorter in winter, corresponding to a changing length of the work day, which is what you were describing. Certain aspects were retained in Japanese vocabulary like 午 still used to represent noon like in afternoon (but using the standard 24h clock), or the word for snack derived from the number 8 because that was what represented the time 2/3s of the way through the day when labourers of the day typically took a break and had some tea and a light meal.
We used to do that in the 19th century before standard time was a thing with railways.
No, with railroads each city had their own time. I’m not suggesting that. I’m saying that time zones should be arranged so that solar noon falls close to 12pm. With DST solar noon can be as late as 1:30pm, or perhaps even later in badly designed time zones. That’s dumb. Solar noon should be close to noon. We shouldn’t mess with that. If that makes certain other things like commuting or sending kids to school inconvenient, we should change the hours at which those activities happen.
Or, just use UTC for the time for everything and never change it. Then everyone’s in the same time zone, and you no longer have to wonder what time it is in Baku. You’d still have to do a bit of digging to know what normal work hours and normal sleeping hours are in Baku if you wanted to contact someone there though.
I agree that doing away with conventions like “9-to-5” would be a good idea, and just adjust schedules to whatever is healthiest rather than try to conform to a fixed system where not necessary. In China with a single timezone, the regions far west of Beijing supposedly just go about their day with offset schedules.
I’m saying that time zones should be arranged so that solar noon falls close to 12pm.
I suppose you might have meant that, but you did say in the earlier reply, quote, “Solar noon should be at 12pm” which would suggest each city would have its own noon so that it can be true for most people. Maybe I’m being too literal bordering on facetious, so I’ll stop there. Sorry for my misinterpretation of your comment.
which would suggest each city would have its own noon
No, it would suggest that each person should have their own personal noon, if you’re being pedantic.
Sunset today was at 4:27PM in Augusta, Maine. That is a big damn problem that is only going to get worse for the next ~40 days. That same problem occurs on the eastern edge of every time zone.
Frankly, I’m not interested in the advice of “sleep experts”. I’m more interested in the advice of fitness experts, recreation experts, and everyone else who understands that mornings are the time we waste giving to bosses and clients; evenings are the time we spend on ourselves and our loved ones.
For me, fitness experts and sleep experts are on the same level. They all have some different story to tell.
I don’t call my labmates molecule experts. That would be insulting but funny. Never a scientist, always an expert buahahaha.
For me, fitness experts and sleep experts are on the same level.
They are on the same level, but they are making opposite recommendations. Sleepists want morning daylight; fitness and recreation wants afternoon daylight.
Kids don’t work out in the early morning before school. They engage in extra curricular activities in the only time slot available to them: after school. Taking daylight from the only time slot they have for themselves pushes them indoors, rather than being outside and active.
The reality is that the morning daylight that sleep experts want is easily produced artificially. Daylight lamps in our bedrooms can easily address the circadian issues the Sleepists raise.
Afternoon daylight cannot be similarly simulated.
TL;DR: Standard Time makes you look fat.
I’m a “children in a box” expert, which doesn’t sound too good until I mention I’m a school bus driver.
Yeah, if the day started at such a time that I could wake up at 8am, which is when the sky would be lightening up just before sunrise in the dead of winter (if we stayed on DST), that’d be sweet. I am one of the sun in the morning people, but I’d be willing to rethink my position.
And the worst part is that my jobs generally start at 10am. I’m just surrounded by days that start way earlier. I also have jobs that start at 530, or 630, or 730, and so the evening light was never such a big deal for me.
You should also go to bed when the Sun sets. you do that too, right?
No you shouldn’t. Not at all actually. Your hormones typically build up to initiate the sleep cycle around 9:30-10:00pm. It’s skience brah.
Lol if you’re going to bed that early and sleeping until sun up then you have early symptoms of dementia.
Wow how did that evolve?
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieval-habit-of-biphasic-sleep
Could be because humanity spread out from more equatorial areas? So we evolved to sleep at night because they used to be regular from season to season.
