• @Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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    4819 hours ago

    3rd party voters: “I’m not voting for Harris until she condemns the Gaza war!”

    Harris: *says she condemns the Gaza war*

    3rd party voters: *desperate scrambling sounds to find something else to be a single issue contrarian*


    I’m really hoping I’m wrong about that, but I’m seeing it on this thread.

    • @pjwestin@lemmy.world
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      36 hours ago

      Third-party voters as a whole don’t matter nearly as much as the handful of Muslims in Michigan that this message is directed towards. Also, this message is not significantly different than what she’s been saying since the DNC. Her big misstep wasn’t her messaging on Gaza; it was ignoring the Uncommitted leaders entirely.

    • @Not_mikey@slrpnk.net
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      2313 hours ago

      Have you been to a protest or talked to pro-Palestinian voices. The demand has always been to stop weapons shipments to Israel, even before October 7th. This isn’t moving the goal posts, the goal posts have been there for decades, it’s just both parties have and continue to ignore them.

    • I mean for context something like 70 million early voters already cast their ballot, so this quite literally cannot change their vote and that number is roughly half of the entire votes cast the entire last election. So in all likelihood, roughly half the people you’re mad at can’t react at all because of how long she waited.

        • @jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          23
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          16 hours ago

          No, the goal post has always been that she’ll enforce America’s laws regarding weapon shipments until israel behaves. This is not that. This ‘ill continue the Biden policy of committing a genocide and periodically send sternly worded letters that do nothing.’.followed by ‘israel has a right to defend itself’ platitudes.

          Harris needs to commit. And this is not that. No goal posts have been moved. Shes trotted out some tokens and said the same thing shes said every time.

        • @technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          17 hours ago

          Empty rhetoric about “war” has never been a worthwhile “goalpost”. We’ve had more than a year of that already from genocide joe.

          It’s always been about ending the genocide and reversing zionism more generally.

        • @geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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          918 hours ago

          Debunking the strawman is not moving the goalpost.

          You do not get to set the demands for other voters. And then pretend they have been met when they are clearly not.

          • Todd Bonzalez
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            -615 hours ago

            Was she supposed to single-handedly end the war in Gaza as VP to earn your vote, or does she specifically need to declare war on Israel to satisfy you? You gotta know that isn’t a winning campaign promise.

            • @explodicle@sh.itjust.works
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              1314 hours ago

              Aren’t most polls against the genocide, so it would’ve helped? Even the goalposts you’re providing don’t acknowledge it as a genocide.

            • @Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              69 hours ago

              The demands haven’t changed. They’ve always been, and this is really quite simple; stop sending weapons to Israel while it’s engaging in genocide. The goalposts have not shifted.

            • @geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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              1716 hours ago

              Kamala already promised not to impose a weapons embargo on Israel. She still does not call it a genocide. No demands have been met.

              What does she mean by everything in her power? Nuking Gaza so the “war” ends? Send in the American military to fight in Gaza?

              • @Ferrous@lemmy.ml
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                1116 hours ago

                Liberals will see no problem choosing polite, handwringing genocide over rowdy, bombastic genocide. They fall so easily for style points and optics completely devoid of substance.

                20 years from now, when the only choices are between a dem who wants 20 genocide and a republican who wants 21, liberals will still be frothing at the mouths, blaming anti-genocide leftists for the country’s devoluton into fascism. This is the logical conclusion of liberal “pragmatic utilitarianism”

                In biology, one learns about a certain species of caterpillar that can only cross the threshold of metamorphosis by seeing its future butterfly. Proletarian subjectivity does not evolve by incremental steps but requires nonlinear leaps, especially by way of moral self-recognition through solidarity with the struggle of a distant people. Even when this contradicts short-term self-interest, as in the famous cases of Lancashire cotton workers’ enthusiasm for Lincoln and later for Gandhi, such efforts not only anticipate a world beyond capitalism, they concretely advance the working class’s march toward it.

                Socialism, in other words, requires nonutilitarian actors, whose ultimate motivations and values arise from structures of feeling that others would deem spiritual. Marx rightly scourged romantic humanism in the abstract, but his personal pantheon — Prometheus and Spartacus, Homer, Cervantes, and Shakespeare — affirmed a heroic vision of human possibility. But can that possibility be realized in today’s world, a world where the “old working class” has been demoted in agency?

                -Mike Davis