• ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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    13 days ago

    Not being an imbecile, I did not misspell anything. It’s Ukraine and not Russia where open fascists are in charge of the government. I love how you’re utterly incapable of acknowledging this being the troll that you are. They’re not hiding it, they’re literally posing in front of nazi symbols. Calling a fascist regime democratic is absolute clown shit. You’ve really outdone yourself here.

    It’s absolutely hilarious how all you’re able to do is just regurgitate Russia bad talking points you’ve memorized. You’re dumber than a chatbot.

    • moderatecentrist@feddit.uk
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      12 days ago

      You can throw around insults like a baby can throw their toys out of a pram, but you’re not really saying anything substantive.

      It’s Ukraine and not Russia where open fascists are in charge of the government

      Is Zelenskyy a fascist? Here’s what Encyclopaedia Britannica says about fascism:

      Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation.

      Both Ukraine and Russia are quite militaristic at the moment due to the war (which was started by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine). But when it comes to democracy and liberalism, I would say Ukraine embraces those ideas more than Russia currently does. Shortly after Russia’s renewed 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Zelenskyy applied for Ukraine to join the EU. The EU is an institution which supports democracy and liberalism, and while it might not always perfectly pursue those ideals, I would say it is definitely more democratic and liberal than Putin’s Russia is. Russia throws protestors in prison with long sentences. Russia has poisoned dissidents such as Alexander Litvinenko, Alexei Navalny, and likely Vladimir Kara-Murza. Russia has been anti-liberal in recent years, demonstrated by their anti-LGBT laws.

      they’re literally posing in front of nazi symbols

      I think I said in a previous post that there are far-right people in many countries, including in Russia. See here and here. Here is an instance of Nazi symbols in France, but that doesn’t mean France is ruled by a “fascist regime”. It likely just indicates that there are some far-right people in France.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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        12 days ago

        Yes, Zelensky is a literal fascist. Last I checked fascism isn’t the official state ideology in France and French officials aren’t proudly posing in front of nazi symbols while in office. I love how all you know how to do is to deny what’s in front of your eyes and then to proceed regurgitating Russia bad talking points. You are an artless troll, and you’re way out of your depth here. Go back to sniffing glue kid.

        • moderatecentrist@feddit.uk
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          12 days ago

          Let’s say there are some far-right Ukrainian fighters. That doesn’t mean all Ukrainian soldiers are far-right or fascists; nor does it mean that the Ukrainian government is fascist. On the Russian side, there appear to be some neo-Nazi fighters, but that doesn’t mean that Putin is automatically a Nazi.

          Here are some articles which talk about far-right and apparently neo-Nazi Russian fighters:

          In fact, that first article features a photo, shown below. You can see a patch on the soldier’s arm, which features a Kolovrat, a symbol that is popular with far-right Slavic movements. The patch resembles what the article describes as the symbol of the Rusich Group (“a twisting wheel - the pagan sign of the sun, one of the other symbols of the DSRG ‘Rusich’”), and the article describes this group as containing “neo-Nazis”. Wikipedia also describes the Rusich Group as a “neo-Nazi” group.

          A soldier with a patch on his arm. The patch appears to resemble the logo of a Russian paramilitary unit named "Rusich Group".

          Here is a different source which says the Rusich Group “holds extreme right-wing, neo-Nazi beliefs”.

          TLDR: It’s weird that you seem outraged by far-right Ukrainians, but not outraged by far-right Russians.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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            12 days ago

            Once again, since you’re slow, Ukraine is run by fascists. It’s the official state ideology in Ukraine, they’re not even denying it. I love how you find that there are fascists in Russia, as there are in pretty much every western country and try to create some sort of equivalence between that and a literal fascist state. All you know how to do is just repeat the same talking points like they’re going to be more convincing if you say them enough time. You’re like baby Goebbels.

            • moderatecentrist@feddit.uk
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              11 days ago

              You’re saying Ukraine is run by fascists but you didn’t address the points I previously raised which, I think, demonstrate that Ukraine’s government is not fascist. If anything, Russia’s government is closer to fascism than Ukraine’s is. I’ll quote what I said before to see if you can actually refute it this time:

              Here’s what Encyclopaedia Britannica says about fascism:

              Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation.

              Both Ukraine and Russia are quite militaristic at the moment due to the war (which was started by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine). But when it comes to democracy and liberalism, I would say Ukraine embraces those ideas more than Russia currently does. Shortly after Russia’s renewed 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Zelenskyy applied for Ukraine to join the EU. The EU is an institution which supports democracy and liberalism, and while it might not always perfectly pursue those ideals, I would say it is definitely more democratic and liberal than Putin’s Russia is. Russia throws protestors in prison with long sentences. Russia has poisoned dissidents such as Alexander Litvinenko, Alexei Navalny, and likely Vladimir Kara-Murza. Russia has been anti-liberal in recent years, demonstrated by their anti-LGBT laws.

              Can you actually demonstrate that Ukraine’s current government is a fascist government, and crucially, can you demonstrate that it is closer to fascism than Russia’s government is? If you say “oh look here are some Ukrainian soldiers with far-right symbols”, then guess what, I already showed you some Russian soldiers with far-right symbols. So that argument would not show that Ukraine’s government is closer to fascism than Russia’s is.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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                11 days ago

                I did in fact address your drivel repeatedly. You just have poor reading comprehension. I love how you just quote shit randomly as if it’s going to add weight to the nonsense you’re trying to spread here.

                I have demonstrated that the current government in Ukraine is fascist. This is not difficult to do when they openly say that they follow Bandera ideology, and pose with nazi symbols, and have literal nazi battalions like Azov as core of their army. I did not merely point to individual Ukrainian soldiers. I’ve repeatedly explained that it’s systemic. None of this is happening in Russia. In fact, Russia has been the country that has put out UN resolutions on combating fascism, and the countries that voted against it were the US and Ukraine 🤣

                https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-un-nazi-glorification-resolution-vote-against-free-speech-far-right-white-supremacist-neo-alt-a8066761.html

                Either you’re utterly clueless or you’re just a troll. I wonder what you’re trying to achieve here to be honest. Everybody reading this thread can see you’re full of shit. You’re certainly not going to convince anybody of anything. I guess you’re just really dedicated to making a clown of yourself in public.

                I’m going to stop here, and let you you have have the last word that you so desperately need.

                • moderatecentrist@feddit.uk
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                  10 days ago

                  I did in fact address your drivel repeatedly

                  Where? You implied that Ukrainian “officials” have been “proudly posing in front of nazi symbols while in office”. In reality you just showed that some Ukrainian fighters have displayed far-right symbols, but as I showed, there have been fighters on the Russian side who have displayed far-right symbols too. Neither case means that the Ukrainian or Russian governments themselves are necessarily fascist (but I think the Russian government is closer to fascism, given their worse record regarding democracy and liberalism).

                  they openly say that they follow Bandera ideology

                  No they don’t. In 2022, after Russia’s launched their renewed invasion of Ukraine, Zelenskyy fired Ukraine’s ambassador to Germany, because the ambassador had made controversial comments about Bandera in an interview (he had said “Bandera was not a mass murderer of Jews and Poles”). Ukraine’s foreign ministry stated that they did not agree with the ambassador’s remarks: “the opinion that the ambassador… expressed in an interview with a German journalist is of his own and does not reflect the position of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine”.

                  So clearly it’s not true that the Ukrainian government “openly say[s] that they follow Bandera ideology”. In fact they are not tolerating comments that could be seen as supportive of Bandera.

                  literal nazi battalions like Azov

                  Let’s look at a different view of Azov:

                  Michael Colborne, who wrote a book about the Azov movement and leads Bellingcat’s work on the global far right, said the unit’s focus appears to have shifted over time from ideology to military effectiveness.

                  He said that any remaining far-right elements within Azov probably would continue to be “diluted” as the unit grows and that the issue had become less important as Ukraine confronts an existential threat.

                  I think Bellingcat are a reliable source for things like this. They’re the same people who identified the two Russian military intelligence officers who carried out the 2018 poisoning in Salisbury, England.

                  None of this is happening in Russia

                  I looked up a bit more about the neo-Nazi, pro-Russia Rusich Group which I previously mentioned. Apparently they are “a Wagner Group contingent” (that source is yet another to describe Rusich as “neo-Nazi”). Let’s remember that Wagner were funded by the Russian state. So the Russian state has been funding neo-Nazis to fight for Russia.

                  In fact, Russia has been the country that has put out UN resolutions on combating fascism, and the countries that voted against it were the US and Ukraine

                  You should probably try to understand a bit better how propaganda works. Then you will realise why Russia does things like this.

                  you’re just really dedicated to making a clown of yourself

                  Not at all. I am showing you real facts and reliable assessments. So now the question is, can you refute any of what I’ve said? If you want to stop here, like you said, then that’s fine. What it means is that you have failed to demonstrate that the Ukrainian government is fascist. As I said before, I think Russia’s government is closer to fascism than Ukraine’s government is, due to Russia’s less democratic political system, and Russia’s less liberal laws (e.g. LGBT laws).