how?
Since it is federated and open source, just create a new instance.
With hookers and blackjack
In fact, forget the new instance
As long as it’s not shitty 6:5 blackjack. Bring me that good 3:2 shit.
But you can only split once and no doubling after split.
I can get behind both of these 🤠
If there’s no blow im out
Yeah, run your instance, don’t let shitheads on it, and block shitty instances.
that’s a great idea
The decentralized nature of it already prevents it being enshittified. If one instance turns to shit, others will be made to take its place.
On the other hand, the decentralized nature completely prevents the blocking of scrapers, spam, etc.
It does not prevent either of those things. It just makes it harder to eliminate universally since every instance is ran differently and may or may not have been set up properly with good tools that help stop those things.
If you want to scrape, you just create your own instance
Doesn’t matter how others are configured - at least for scraping
That’s not really scraping, and you can block other instances from caching your instance’s posts.
Tell me how to prevent scraping in a federated setting. I’ll wait.
maybe the devs adding self hosted verification to prevent scraping i dont know
Once one instance is federated any user (or the instance itself) an scrape everything.
It kinda works like ublock origin where a block list makes the block coverage MUCH faster. Its already happening in some parts of the fediverse. As long as its disclosed, its a very reliable tool.
How do you block something that is scraping the content to train LLMs?
Sort answer you cant (federation). Long answer, you can but with a lot of effort.
You can however fuck with LLMs VERY easily. Poisoning it is relatively easy.
oh great
Just like everything else. Nothing stays unshitty forever.
Don’t become a publically tradable company for starters.
Enshittification is not the worry. However we’re extremely vulnerable to spam and dead internet.
Enshittification is a result of commercialisation.
The Forumverse cannot be commercialised. If an instance starts showing advertisements, its users will migrate to ones that don’t.
I don’t think this network can enshittify.
A complex example of this is Threads™️
It’s the largest Mastodon interfacing instance (much larger than mastodon.social) otoh Threads is blocked by most instances and actual federated interaction aren’t remotely common.
Do you mean enshittification as a general term meaning that the overall quality will slip? Because the specific meaning by Cory Doctorow is about centralized commercial platforms. The fediverse isn’t one
The whole point of Lemmy is that you don’t have to worry about it. Just make new instances. The only real issue is people holding on to their instances too long even though they’ve shown to be a problem. Which I’m not going to be throwing stones on cuz I mean I’m still .world user.
Can you elaborate? I can see two meanings for the situation you’re describing.
I mean just like everyone else said. If things get bad you can always leave and join or create a different instance.
Thanks, the other interpretation that I thought was possible was that the admins hang on for too long. No, it doesn’t make sense lol. That’s why I asked 😅
people holding on to their instances too long even though they’ve shown to be a problem.
Where does this dicussion happen? Where can I read which instances are going bad (in whatever way)?
Prevent corporations from ever gaining foothold here. Even slightest presence should be considered to be similar as to some invasive and rapidly spreading meatmoss and equally disgusting too.
too late.
that is external thing, cant expect to have any control over it in the first place. I think its more like leech than infection point at this point anyway. But if we ever start to just accept it and go “it is what it is” with this too, then that is the first step to things going bad.
If you want to know how this works look at IRC when that idiot bought freenode it will be just fine.
Think of it like email. We don’t exactly worry about degradification of email. Instead we have to worry about gmail, or proton mail, etc becoming awful.
In the same way, it’s less that Lemmy might go downhill, more that maybe individual instances could. In which case, there are various degrees of how to avoid an instance. Leave, unsubscribe, block, defederate, etc.
For example, Meta created Threads and tried for a while to integrate with Mastodon. But Mastodon is still pretty much the same afaik. Many instances defederated from it, other people just ignored it, some people I’m sure were happy to communicate with a wider crowd.
Of course, the idea breaks down in a couple ways. Communities and communication on ActivityPub isn’t really the same as email. But mainly, email is kinda bad these days because of big actors, bad actors, and just ubiquity. Not sure how to prevent automated spam from clogging up every communication channel.
Enshittification happens when the quality of the service becomes second class to some other goal like making money, building digital surveillance or a psyops platform. As long as Lemmy stays open source, that will not happen, since every move towards anything like that would be immediately obvious.
The problem has already been fixed. What needs to be done is keeping it fixed.
Very simply, we jump ship from any server that starts down that dark path. Keep it impossible for any single company to exercise any meaningful control over the fediverse.
I think there are internal fundemental ideas behind the fediverse that, if protected, will mitigate this issue.
So long as we don’t go the way of XMPP who allowed google into their eco-system allowing them to dictate the path forward by being the largest user. Google+ was allowed to federate, it became the largest user pool, and when it changed XMPP either followed or defederated causing users to lose contacts and google+ users to see XMPP users vanishing every so often. All they needed to do was make it harder to keep up than it was worth and XMPP pittered out.
A federated, non-corporate set of platforms won’t have the same tendancies as they don’t have the same goals, the same influences. If it gets big, and we resist corporations the whole way through, we won’t need to fuck shit up for money.
What worries me is that many Mastodon instances instantly wanted to federate with BlueSky. Same with tumblr. So stupid.
that maybe also why i think users should be cautious about .world .ml and .works
because they may get too popular
What does “enshittification” mean? How is it caused?
Basically, it can happen when one company (or a few companies) dominates a market, so they can gradually make shit worse for everyone, trying to make just a bit more money.
Federation is the solution. As long as there are many servers, run by different owners and administrators, any single server can only fuck itself over.
That is why the open source community likes protocols, interoperability, APIs, and federation. No single software package, or server, should control the entire market. Single-point failure means brittle architecture, whether through accident or intent.
self-hosting, smaller more thematically-focused instances, and aggressively defederating any instance that hosts ads or propaganda
