The one reservation I have about ladybird is that the main dev seems to think that being inclusive is “bringing politics into the project” while assuming everyone is a man is “neutral”. Did anything ever happen to that drama? I feel like everyone just kind of forgot about it without any resolution.
I looked into it some months ago and if I’m not mistaken the dev referred to a “user profile” as “he” in an installation instruction text.
Then someone made a suggestion to change it to “they” and he answered that he didn’t want politics in his project.
My thoughts were that “they” didn’t fit and if changed, “user profile” should be “it” and not “they”.
He didn’t change it to “it” either though… It’s really not clear if it’s just bad English, a case of don’t tell me what to do or full blown bigotry.
My vote, at least for now, goes to overblown drama.
Hmm I see. I would definitely be more willing to be understanding if Andreas didn’t follow up with the addition of a code of conduct that seems purpose written to shield himself from criticism under the guise of tolerance.
To me it feels like a doubling down and imo having a code of conduct that basically says you must tolerate all views seems like a recipe for garnering a crowd similar to that of rumble or kick.
Do you know why we don’t hear such drama from Chrome developers? Because Google has a PR team. A chunk of the people in the world hold shitty opinions. A similar chunk of developers hold them too. It’s just going to happen.
Chrome is also developed by much more than 1 dev, which to me makes the views of a single dev irrelevant. But when 1 person controls the development and access of the community to participate like hyprland for example, then their views, policies towards bigotry, and the way they treat the community becomes much more important imo. Especially when there are no viable forks.
Nobody really cared about the drama except for the drama queens. The maintainer doesn’t care so why does he even have to waste time on it? His stance wasn’t that male pronouns should be considered neutral, but that it doesn’t fucking matter. Maybe if the person that raised the “problem” would have actually added something worthwhile to the project instead of just focusing on some pronouns in the FUCKING DEV DOCUMENTS they could have changed them without anybody caring.
No need to be aggressive. If that’s your position then so be it. I just figured I must have missed an apology or something.
And if it’s not about wasting time, then I don’t get why they then spent time adding a code of conduct that reads to me as codifying tolerance of bigotry (it says “Participants will be tolerant of opposing views”, which in context reads to me as a doubling down that participants must tolerate non-inclusiveness as an “opposing view”). If they really cared about not wasting time then why not just accept the PR to make the language inclusive instead of wasting time creating drama and doubling down with a code of conduct that flies in the face of the paradox of tolerance.
I’m not aggressive. Don’t be condescending. I used caps instead of making it bold. And I use cursewords whenever the fuck I want.
He doesn’t need to give an apology. You’re making this a thing which seems to prove his point.
The PR is just a waste of a PR because it does nothing and it stems from what at the time was a very political bullshit issue. Allowing the PR would provide a foundation to make everything that isn’t pronoun-correct to be able to get attacked. And you don’t want that in a project.
It’s not bigotry because it doesn’t matter what pronoun one uses in DEV DOCUMENTS. Use whatever the hell you want. It’s only an issue if it’s facing the end user. Anything else is just annoying and comes from an agenda. And it’s best to stop people with agendas as fast as possible.
The same response would have been given if somebody were to try to change an inclusive pronoun to an exclusive pronoun. But that seems to be something people don’t even want to accept.
The one reservation I have about ladybird is that the main dev seems to think that being inclusive is “bringing politics into the project” while assuming everyone is a man is “neutral”. Did anything ever happen to that drama? I feel like everyone just kind of forgot about it without any resolution.
I looked into it some months ago and if I’m not mistaken the dev referred to a “user profile” as “he” in an installation instruction text.
Then someone made a suggestion to change it to “they” and he answered that he didn’t want politics in his project.
My thoughts were that “they” didn’t fit and if changed, “user profile” should be “it” and not “they”.
He didn’t change it to “it” either though… It’s really not clear if it’s just bad English, a case of don’t tell me what to do or full blown bigotry.
My vote, at least for now, goes to overblown drama.
Hmm I see. I would definitely be more willing to be understanding if Andreas didn’t follow up with the addition of a code of conduct that seems purpose written to shield himself from criticism under the guise of tolerance.
To me it feels like a doubling down and imo having a code of conduct that basically says you must tolerate all views seems like a recipe for garnering a crowd similar to that of rumble or kick.
Do you know why we don’t hear such drama from Chrome developers? Because Google has a PR team. A chunk of the people in the world hold shitty opinions. A similar chunk of developers hold them too. It’s just going to happen.
Chrome is also developed by much more than 1 dev, which to me makes the views of a single dev irrelevant. But when 1 person controls the development and access of the community to participate like hyprland for example, then their views, policies towards bigotry, and the way they treat the community becomes much more important imo. Especially when there are no viable forks.
True. Which is why in happy to donate to my Lemmy instance but not to the Lemmy developers.
It could also be entirely bullshit, or unintentional, or whatever.
Yeah, the public opinion court is notoriously lacking on the whole due process thing.
Yes, and the public is also apparently severely undereducated generally speaking
Nobody really cared about the drama except for the drama queens. The maintainer doesn’t care so why does he even have to waste time on it? His stance wasn’t that male pronouns should be considered neutral, but that it doesn’t fucking matter. Maybe if the person that raised the “problem” would have actually added something worthwhile to the project instead of just focusing on some pronouns in the FUCKING DEV DOCUMENTS they could have changed them without anybody caring.
No need to be aggressive. If that’s your position then so be it. I just figured I must have missed an apology or something.
And if it’s not about wasting time, then I don’t get why they then spent time adding a code of conduct that reads to me as codifying tolerance of bigotry (it says “Participants will be tolerant of opposing views”, which in context reads to me as a doubling down that participants must tolerate non-inclusiveness as an “opposing view”). If they really cared about not wasting time then why not just accept the PR to make the language inclusive instead of wasting time creating drama and doubling down with a code of conduct that flies in the face of the paradox of tolerance.
I’m not aggressive. Don’t be condescending. I used caps instead of making it bold. And I use cursewords whenever the fuck I want.
He doesn’t need to give an apology. You’re making this a thing which seems to prove his point.
The PR is just a waste of a PR because it does nothing and it stems from what at the time was a very political bullshit issue. Allowing the PR would provide a foundation to make everything that isn’t pronoun-correct to be able to get attacked. And you don’t want that in a project.
It’s not bigotry because it doesn’t matter what pronoun one uses in DEV DOCUMENTS. Use whatever the hell you want. It’s only an issue if it’s facing the end user. Anything else is just annoying and comes from an agenda. And it’s best to stop people with agendas as fast as possible.
The same response would have been given if somebody were to try to change an inclusive pronoun to an exclusive pronoun. But that seems to be something people don’t even want to accept.
I couldn’t give a flying fuck, it’s software.
Good to know
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