Hi, sorry to butt in on this thread, but this part almost feels malicious:
I’m supposed to read Romanian now?
Especially in an age of automatic translation, this sentence just broadcasts ill intent. While you cannot know what allegances that specific Romanian outlet has, it feels strangely biased you doing all this under a Russia Today article. Also those jabs, man. ‘Did you drink too much?’
You really gonna call sources into question on an RT thread?? Would I be going too far as stating RT is to Russia what RFE is to the US??
So, I don’t know if you know, but many countries haven’t really had a chance to digest the second world war collectively. The polish can go from zero to 100 as soon as you bring up national involvement in the holocaust.
If someone is bringing up old skeletons from a neighbouring country instead of working on their million and one problems at home, I get suspicious. Why are the Russians pointing a finger now? How is this not sewing division?
plenty others had their regime changed or couped
While I do appreciate that Maidan brought a regime change and the many Hungarian protests haven’t, so I keep the possibility of CIA intervention open there and can ‘give you’ that much. But which other Eastern European (or Baltic for that matter) had to be coaxed into Nato? Like where were there power grabs before the 2004 wave?
If it is a choice of going from sending troops to weird desert wars or having russian boots on Hungarian land, 10 times out of ten I’d choose the former.
We can disect the harm Soros caused the world, but I feel we see it from an opposing side. He funded Orbán and co. The same group that says it would have let the Russians in in '56 without resistance because that would have saved lives. It feels this is the main argument as well, against Ukraine: ‘Stop hurting yourself’. You can say Orbán got smart and stood up to the old dude, but this part feels like speculation.
I am fairly sure I won’t get convinced otherwise in this thread, but I do appreciate the civil tone. I am also in a lucky situation where things aren’t going my way: if I’m right, I get to say it, if I’m wrong, Ukraine will be denazified and peace will reign in a new Russo-European collaboration of the likes I haven’t seen before. Peace, hegemony.
Thanks for the talk. I’m open to further discussing views if you want/have the energy.
I do understand how Russia feels threatened by Nato expansion, but the many ‘buffer states’ chose to be part of a defense alliance by there own will.
But the Russian reasons are pluralized now. Not only is it Nato expanding, but they are also doing everyone a favor by killing nazis again. The first one might be a true threat to Russian interests, the second one seems to be moral justification.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain these stuff and give links. Just based on these facts you provided, I might be convinced. But there is an extra layer of bias in me that will be hard to scrub, and we need to bring Orbán into the mix for me to explain. So I’ve seen first hand what Orbán did to his country under his 14 year, near totalitarian reign. Orbán is playing for the russian side. Birds of a feather…
Even though I know most politicians are trash, I’d rather be under the thumb of capitalism, than a vassal of Russia. I don’t want small kings around, who have it right by might. And that is what Russia is doing now. Maybe US and Europe too, so who knows. It’s a shame diplomacy fell through.
Everything you say could be true. Just like the Ukranian propaganda. More probably there are kernels of truth, blown up on both sides.
Just from my personal view, I feel a Russian army moving towards Europe gives me more angst than some very problematic Ukranian language laws. I remember the laws being in the news in Hungary waaaay back in the day, maybe even before Maidan, but I wasn’t really paying attention to happenings at the time.
Maybe the time for mutual understanding has passed.
If you feel nazis are your main baddie, it might be better to understand what makes them tick. If not for empathy, then for hitting where it hurts.
Why do you say I am denying the presence of nazis? They are usually a niche demographic, but present in any country. I am not saying let the bastards speak hate with impunity.
Or eggs do cost that much to produce in the US. Pinning this problem on Big Egg seems like the easiest solution, but I have an inkling this stuff goes deeper.
For sure, countries need to look inward and start digesting that many people ate the onion in the first half of the 40s. Not because we need justice for the deaths of local minorities commited by nationals, but because this type of behaviour causes great trauma not just for the victims, but the aggressors. They pass this trauma down and it remains alive in current generations. It usually doesn’t even manifest itself as outright racism, just lots of anger issues in general (I guess this part is anecdotal).
All that being said, fuck Russia for bringing this up now. They went in to Ukraine under the flag of denazification. But Latvia is in Nato, so I don’t really see this as a cassus beli, but more of sowing division in EU.
It makes sense though, doesn’t it? I imagine someone going in knowing it’s machine learning doesn’t have too many false assumptions, but they are being programmed in a way to mimic humans. The voice recognition part has come an incredible long way and I would not be surprised that this makes the uninitiated expect more of the language model than actually is there.
In this era of atomic isolation, even I wanted to believe it’s true. Having an algorithm that remembers my name through reboots would deepen the sense that there is a pretty developed entity helping me. Luckily I skimp on the premium versions.
Very interesting.
The Hungarian and Serbian protests are pretty clear cut. Former was a rally on a national holiday by the opposition lead, while the Serbs finally have a clear and open reason to demand blood. The Italian one feels like it’s almost a direct answer to the Trump-Zelensky mis-hap (or maybe I just saw the call to protest pop up around then).
What’s happening in Romania though? What I got from the article is that there was no proven link to the Russians. That seems like a tough nut to crack. The nationalists are in the streets protesting for democracy? Are there many?
Such exciting times! Thanks for the post.
You mean thwarting their zionistic ambitions?
Send RFK… They kinda look alike.
Hey, don’t do that. I mean you can, sure, and it’ll be a cheaper solution (by just a fraction) to omit the windows license.
If you haven’t dipped your toes into Linux yet, but want to, do it on a machine where you aren’t too worried if you screw the OS up and have to build a new one, it is not an extraordinary pain (like you had you’re work there, only copies of your game saves, ecetera).
I’d screw around with the Chromebook, and when I’m good and ready, get a more powerful notebook.
I’m not sure about all flavors of Linux, but installing most is easier than windows. And if you luck out, you won’t have to bring up the console, the new distros are so friggin tight. But I guess that is where the heart of it all is. I am super happy with Endeavour OS, and I mostly just copy paste commands (that I’m understanding better and better, the more I use it).
I was debating using the word at all, I just wanted to point out how I interpreted the message. The only reason I dared use it, is that you picked up this thread in a gentler tone (which just confirmed that you are not pushing agenda).
As I mentioned to our colleague in this thread, I do want to dip my toes in the basics of dialectic materialism, so excuse me if all of this has been discussed to the bone. I understand how we are (also) products of our surrounding, and matter can shape mind. My main argument here is that we also shape matter. So the direction goes both ways. If I am not convinced of my truth, I shall be swayed, thus I have to make sure that when I speak, I speak the truth to the best of my knowledge. If I have hangups, I might push for something faulty. Something that based on my perspective should be a natural part of life, a given, but is actually just a neurosis. So you are definitely picking up the vibes that I see the solution at home.
Anyhow, thank you for getting back to me. I’d love to discuss the topic further, but maybe I’m not ready for a proper debate of (or devil’s advocating against) communism.
Hey, I’m kinda in the middle of trying to dismantle my illusions, so if you can point out inconsistencies, please do.
So the gun advice immediately sent me down this doomsday path in my mind, where it makes sense to hoard medication and vitamins. Also it has a feeling of call to a standing army. I might also be terminally pacifistic and feel that a few dogs and floodlights can take care of most defense in all but the most dire of situations. You are right in that I would rather see comrades armed than the current governmental security agents, but I don’t trust that much power to really anyone. The idea feels weird that they can end an argument very quickly if they wanted to. I don’t want to live in a world, where we need to keep and use weapons to feel safe.
Why do you say that power corrupting doesn’t exist? I guess I haven’t seen any papers on the matter, but it does seem to be ingrained into our common psyche. On the solarpunk subreddit we were talking about how the finite game will always win out on the infinite one. I know corruption isn’t insant and there is a combo where we can have a common win, but that seems heavily in the idealistic territories.
One of my main arguments is some pop-psych, which states it is easier to fight for your truth than to live it. It feels like a time to collectively get our shit together at home and bring that to the streets. I know communism is about equal rights as well, so someone who grew up in an abusive relationship will find that natural and search for that feeling. If things are not tip-top at home, we will have some elements in the collective that will bring destruction.
I know society is set up to hang societal problems on the individual, but if I’m looking at the big picture, I feel the total opposite of empowered. It seems the most power I have is over my own decisions, and the best I can do is reign in my emotions and concentrate of me not sabotaging myself. There is probably great literature out there that deals with my exact dilemma, but I have yet to read it.
And just as a side not, in our original discussion I kinda felt waved away and talked down to. I am definitely prone to victimization, but the triggers are coming from the world. You are right that more literature on the subject at hand would do me wonders, but being sympathetic (and not totally unknowledgable) to the cause, it made me wonder if I’m talking to a tankie.
While I cannot see any outright solution for our collective Orbán problem, I can definitely say it’s a great learning experience in adjusting requirements for newcomers.
We need to attach joining a common public prosecution to list. Something with teeth, that only autocrats need fret (I have no clue what and how, though).
My reasoning is that if a country would not qualify for entry in the current state there should be pressure to change things. At least they shouldn’t be able to extort the Union like they currently do.
I whole-heartedly agree. I am definitely biased on the matter, but I feel the whole separation direction is antagonistic to the EU cause. Like right now Orbán is definitely antagonistic and causing disruption to the common goal, but if we separate Hungary from the EU, we take away Orbán’s tight-rope act and the problem only further festers (albeit, outside the EU).
There is definitely an argument to be had against this, as the EU has acted as a valve for people who were fed up enough. So maybe we can make a pressure cooker, but for some reason I doubt the government will be the first casualty if that happens.
Are you being dense on purpose?
(sry)
Fidesz didn’t dissolve democracy, they hacked it. I feel the term captured state fits, but they also talk about it being a hybrid regime.
Your concerns are very much grounded, but I just don’t see booting HU as a good solution. While there might be merit into ‘scaring Hungarians’ into getting rid of Orbán and co with a chance of losing EU access, it would only be good as a hail mary. I’d say half his voter base doesn’t really care about external (or internal) politics or is convinced that Brussels is the new Moscow.
Let me ask you one thing: is it better to have an ally that is visibly corrupted than to try and support the partizans in a neighbouring Russian vassal?
Definitely question the source. Even after writing I realized RT is more akin to hollywood propaganda than RFE. On the best of days could we compare RT to AP, I guess.
That leaves my other point standing. I understand we are all people and are emotional about such matters, but you countered the Romanian source with a jab, then drove the point home by attacking their state of mind. An emotional, triggering response to a friggin link. Deepening divide, operating with shame.
Why do you use these tools of shaming when plain truth is on your side? Why did you not go through the romanian sources with a trusted translator service and reply with glaring problems instead of questioning their sobriety?